logovo1 | Slash y "feminización"

Por un comentario regresa mi cabeza la pregunta del por que en tanto slash los hombres son transformados en seres casi irreconocibles como los personajes originales. Existe la tendencia de atruibuirles comportamiento identificable como "masculino" o "femenino" a los protagonistas.

¿Por que existe una tendencia en - ¿un 80% del slash? - a feminizar* por lo menos unos de los tipos en la pareja?

Me recuerda un compañero de oficina que aseguraba que en toda relación homosexual hay uno (a) que la hace de "hombre" y otro(a) que la hace de "mujer." Ey, el hombre este tenia como 63 años, asi que se le perdona su falta de imaginación, pero dime ¿estoy en la minoría que mira estas asignaciones como... eh... prehistóricas?

El lado sentimental en una relación no siempre esta de un solo lado y ya en el sexo los terminos de "top" o "bottom" no son inflexibles. Digo, de caso contrario que hueva ¿quien quiere estar atrapado en el mismo papel para siempre?

No tengo respuesta al por que veo tanto de esta situación en slash y por que a la gente le gusta. Es unos de los misterios del género, pero no me gusta.

¿Dime logovo, porque no te gusta que tus tipos se comporten mas sensibles, mas dispuestos a hablar de sus sentimientos y tener largas conversaciones después de un maratón sexual?

Porque *esos* personajes no son los que yo veo y a los que les he agarrado tanto cariño. Son versiones Frankenstein de lo que percibo en el programa de TV/película/libro. Algunos lectores los disfrutan, pero yo neeeeeeeel.

*sabra chingados que es esto, porque neta, siendo mujer puedo asegurarte que no me comporto bajo este encabezado.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I think I understood this post. I'll ramble and hope that some of what I say applies to your post. :)

First, I've heard that over half of gay men classify themselves as bottoms. The heterocentric view says the bottom is the feminine partner and the top is masculine. There is some truth to that - mostly because gay men are raised in a heterocentric culture and absorb these stereotypes. To be the receptive partner in intercourse is considered less masculine, so a guy who refuses to relinquiesh some of his masculinity has trouble being the bottom.

Why are most gay men bottoms? Because reportedly, receptive anal sex can be amazing. The stimulation of the anal sphincter is part of it - women can experience that as well. But the prostate gland apparently can summon intense sexual feelings comparable to the "G Spot" in a woman. So anal sex kinda rocks. If you're gay and you try it, and you don't have hangups about being the receptive partner, then you generally want to experience it again and again.

Being the receptive partner does NOT mean the person is more feminine. Because of cultural stigma, a bottom is usually more willing to explore aspects of his personality which are characterized as feminine, but big macho construction workers like taking it up the ass too.

You're right (if I understood you) that slash stories frequently make the gay boys into two girls. Not just girls, but often they became a couple of junior high school girls having a sleep-over. The characters often cry, giggle, and do totally girly stuff that has nothing to do with the characters we see on TV (movie, book, etc). These actions also have nothing to do with most guys (gay or straight) that you might know.

Yes, some gay guys are more feminine than others. And very effeminate guys are more likely to be gay. But there are lots of macho gay gays who repress their emotions, can't talk about their feelings, spit, watch sports, and generally appear just like a straight guy except he is attracted to other dudes. If Lex acts as he does on TV, then he's gonna be just as much of a "guy" with emotional issues and fear of intimacy even when he just finished fucking Clark to within an inch of his life.

Yes, many slash writers are females. Many slash stories seem to be fantasy fulfillment where the female author makes the men into the type of partner they might really want. One who can share his feelings, cry, be vulnerable.

The truth is the relationship between two guys often results in a situation where BOTH partners have trouble expressing their feelings, showing vulnerability, etc. Being gay doesn't turn the guy into a girl's image of the perfect, emotional guy. It just means he likes guys. And liking guys usually means liking guys who act like GUYS. Often we aren't looking for a woman with a penis. We like guys who seem like the guys we grew up around - straight guys - the ones we lusted over in the locker room while they acted crude and undressed in front of us.

Yes, there are definitely guys who act quite effeminate. But that is just the most visible subgroup of the whole gay male group.

Yes, there are guys who are exclusively bottoms or tops. But in my experience most (but definitely not all) guys like some of each. Both sensations can feel good, both physically and mentally. If a guy is exclusively interested in only one role, then my gut-feeling is that choice is more a result of emotional issues where the guy only feels comfortable being more masculine or feminine. Yes, I just made a sweeping generalization that I'm sure isn't completely true, but I doubt it is completely wrong, either.

Hopefully I answered some part of your question and you didn't just ask for a great new recipe for arroz con pollo which I COMPLETELY misunderstood. :)

Thank so much for this comment. The weirdness of this situation seriously confuses me, but I don't bring it up in my english LJ because it feels like one of those "eternal questions" that slash generates. Others bring up the subject a lot better, but I don't see it discussed a whole lot in the minuscule Spanish slash community. So, I posted this in my blog but wasn't really prepared for some of the answers I got over there. I have almost nothing when it comes to some of the points brought up. Time for some research I think.

Usually when I mention slash, or at least until a few months ago, I could practically hear the crickets chirping. No ones was interested. But things have been changing in the Spanish fandom world, it seems more people are paying attention or just being more vocal.

Anyway, fantasy is such a difficult thing to transmit to someone with a completely different set of - what? software? So that when I see men that I've followed in canon get so completely out of character as to act stereotypically female it makes drop a story right away. Pod-people characters are sort of the norm in most fanfic out there, but I hate to see it in slash most of all.

Being the receptive partner does NOT mean the person is more feminine. Because of cultural stigma, a bottom is usually more willing to explore aspects of his personality which are characterized as feminine, but big macho construction workers like taking it up the ass too.

Mexico... well, I don't even know where to start. Just imagine how in a culture that puts so much stock on appropriate gender roles makes fucked up assumptions of how a relationship between two men is supposed to work. Oy! I mean, I don't think we are even talking the same language sometimes! Well, no surprises there. A pleasant surprise however has been the realization how un-typical the men blogging are from you average guy on the street. That has been very, very nice.

Thanks again for your comment, I believe it will help me over *there* - - I may translate and quote you :)

Yeah - I can understand how it might be a different attitude in Mexico. The only Mexican movie I can recall seeing with a gay theme was Y Tu Mama Tambien. I thought it was handled decently - though it was sad how the boys had no chance to actually stay together. I rented the unrated version, of course. :D

Y Tu Mama Tambien was very unusual for Mexican movies, but I was dissapointed at how the relationship died when it was just starting. Realistic though.

I think I saw the unrated version. Even then it didn't seem very risque. To me. Heh.

Yes, that was exactly how I felt. Those boys realistically couldn't have done anything else, but it was sad. And at least they had that one shining moment. The only difference on the unrated, I think, is that we saw a little bit of full frontal nudity.
I love that icon.

Ah, OK, I forget that having full frontal is a big deal, specially in the US.

ANd the icon was made by a friend - - check this out, you know Spanish enought to get this :)

http://caballonegro.blogspot.com/

You need to scroll down just a bit.

Or here from the start...

http://photobucket.com/albums/v28/jorge3d/cn/?action=view¤t=cnstrip001.gif

*laughs*
That does seem rather racy for Spanish. And now I know a bit more about your icon, too. It seems you are considered to be quite a scandalous woman in your group. :)

She is a little - eh - well, she's special. And somewhat sweet.

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